Would you rather pay for the overtime and have less officers on the streets, working events, and eliminate special programs like the school officer.
Or use the same cost and reduce overt time and have more police officers?
Again this town use to have almost 20 more officers then it currently has today. Retirements will continue to happen, and the ranks will fluctuate. This is why this new ordinance sound great on paper. It allows the Chief, the VC, the VM and even the town have a say on how many officers they feel they need on a yearly bases. It dosnt tie the hands of the powers to be to make the right choice if needed due to a number that know one knows how it was reached.
I guess its’s pay less today in overtime by having more officers, or pay more tomorrow in pension & health care if we have more officers ? Which is cheaper ? I’ve noticed the public safety, plus pensions & social security, and insurance (health, workman’s’ comp, other) were 51% of the Village part of the budget in 2013. This was up from 42% in 2001. These budget items are growing much faster than the overall budget, and have also grown in excess of the 2% property tax cap. If this continues, it suggests that, from a property taxpayer’s perspective, the annual increases in property taxes will not go to improve quality of life and services for residents. Instead, annual tax increases will be required to fund mandated salary and benefit obligations. So which is better ?
When we had 20 more officers they weren’t making 6 figures +.
Also more important, cops used to work 8 hour shifts, 5 days a week.
If we had to pay overtime to fill a shift it was 8 hours of pay.
NOW, they work 12 hour shifts. (3 days one week, 4 the next? please chime in on this if its not accurate)
So when a shift is filled now, it costs 50% MORE. 12 hours of pay vs 8.
Its simple math.
The overtime costs increase 50% more just due to the 12 hour shifts, which were at the request of the PBA.
They convinced then Chief Lou Mader it would still allow the same coverage.
OT versus lifetime benefits
That’s wrong and I’m chiming in when the paid was on 8 hour shifts they were paid time and 1/2 after 8 hrs. pay and the OT was astronomical because you had a 5 man minimum on patrol and OT started after 8 hrs. The gross Ot #’s didn’t seem as high because the salaries were much lower. but if you broke the OT down into units, 1hr=1 unit, there were more units paid out and more hours @ time 1/2 because Ot started @ 8 hours not 12. Furthermore there was more inside personnel to draw from on “straight time” that are now non existent due to cutbacks and attrition. In todays dept. a member has to work 12 hrs. @ “straight time” before time and 1/2 is paid. If the dept. went back to covering 3 shifts instead of 2 shifts with the same manpower as they have now, reverting back to the 8 hour work day there would be a monumental increase in total overtime payout.
I still cant figure out all the guarding of Verizon trucks ?
Outside contractors pay the town to supply cops for traffic instead of supplying there own flag men this is paid for by the contractors and the town makes money off it through per hour fee’s and charging an hourly rate for the use of a police car.
But does that pull officers from duty or are they picking up extra shifts ?
# 1 they never had 20 more officers than they do now the highest number the PD. was able to document was 52, I believe they have 39 now +or- 1 or 2
I disagree. If an officer is sick and his ‘shift’ needs to be covered, its a SHIFT. Makes no difference if its 8 or 12 hours. The COST to the Village is simple. 50% more. When we hire an officer, lets say a patrolman whose salary is 127k. we get his/her services as an employee for a year. Its in the best interest of the Village to have that divided among 5 SHIFTS per week vs 3. If that employee calls in sick for a shift its 20% of a weeks pay on a 5 day week. If employee is sick for a 12 hour shift, that’s 33.3% of the weeks pay. So if someone is sick on a shorter shift it costs less to replace them. 8 hours of pay vs 12 (OT or straight time)
The 12 hour shifts are zero benefit to the taxpayers. It simply increases overtime costs by 50% because a 12 hour shift must be covered vs an 8 hour shift… and the employees must work ‘x’ number of hours in a year. I’d rather get as many shifts as possible out of my employees.
I just read the 20 more from the original post. I always thought we had in the high 40’s on 3 squads. If I recall the dept was always ‘top heavy with brass’. Each ‘bureau’ (patrol, detective, juvenile, -I don’t think ‘traffic’ had all of this) had its own chain of command with lieutenants, sergeants and patrolman)
No that does not pull officers from their regulars shifts and the cops that wor have a contractor rate it’s in the cba you posted here some time ago the taxpayers do not pay for that service and cops and fire pension are based strictly on base pay no ot included unlike other states and port authority.
SO currently the cops are paid $89 per hour contractor rate to sit in the Village owned police car while the PSEG and Verizon crews work? How much per hour does the Village get for the car? $5 per hour on top of what the cop makes and how much for doing the paperwork?
The PD operates 24/7/365 days a year, 4 Ptl. minimum required before ot. that equates to 35040 man hours either on a 12 hr schedule or a 8 hr schedule. Under the 8 hr schedule if ot. is needed ot. starts after 8 hrs so an officer who gets held over would get 8hrs time and 1/2, 16 hrs is max working time without 8 off on a 12 hour schedule the same officer held over would get 4 hours ot. The cba calls for 1944 hrs per member currently ot starts after 12 hrs not 8. The reason for the increased ot is the town chooses to run the dept. on skeleton staffing so when the squads at minimum as much as they do your going to generate more ot. The rest of the staff that used to be available to pull from to avoid ot is gone.
With the 12 hour shifts, it seems like cops I know are always on a day off, so I’d guess there’s plenty of available manpower to fill shifts, although on an Overtime basis.
Not sure if RPD uses ‘comp’ time or not. That saves municipalities money.
It would take an in-depth analysis to see whether its worth it to pay overtime or add officers. Adding officers at an ‘initial’ lower pay scale is tempting, but their pay does rise exponentially, and we still have the same tab for their health benefits.(and we are stuck with the tab if they get hurt on the job) Having seen nasty divorce battles, actuaries value police pensions in the multiple millions of dollars, so paying OT might be the smart way to fill empty shifts rather than get obligated for these other costs.
the cops love all the o t. they all love that they are so low on staff, they are making a lot of money, good for them. do you see the cars in the lot, my god, if half of us new what they made in the past few years you would tell your kids screw school , go and become a cop. they are all making big money for a cop. they don.t make that in other towns.like i say it’s nice over time, the fire and police have very big over time budgets.
All the ot is great until it effects your family life, but I’m sure the cops like working ot but from what I’ve been reading if the town doesn’t hire there will be a lot of unnecessary money spent because it takes so long to get a cop trained well enough to go out on his own. The last I read the police academy was 6months long!!!!
In 2010, Ridgewood ranked 3rd highest in Bergen County in employees making more than $100,000 with 70 employees. This represents 24.4% of the Village workforce compared to our neighboring communities of Glen Rock at 12.6%, Midland Park at 2%, Ho-Ho-Kus at 1.6% and Westwood at 2.6%. Ridgewood is a dramatic outlier in this respect. Ridgewood is only one of four municipalities in Bergen County with a full-time Fire Department and 67% of Firefighters (28/42) had base salaries over $100,000 as of 2011. The median for Ridgewood was $118,290. 80% of Ridgewood Police (33/41) had base salaries over $100,000 in 2011. The median for Ridgewood was $128,239. Vacation benefits for Ridgewood employees can grow up to a maximum of 31 days, excluding compensatory time off, sick days, and other forms of paid leave. Qualified retirees (25 years for police & fire) are eligible for pension (65% of compensation prior to retirement) and medical benefits (at no cost) for life. Upon death, the pension and benefits accrue to the retirees spouse for his or her life.
Ridgewood had the lowest ration of cops per resident in Bergen County and the force has seen an ever increasing work load with 7 officers ready to retire the town better do something or there just wont be anyone available to work and don’t think we will be able to rely on other towns, their taxpayer aren’t going to stand for their cops going into Ridgewood on a regular basis because our town refused to hire.
Thanks for the numbers #16.
Dig a bit deeper and please advise how many made over $200,000.
Rumors abound that with the PSEG side jobs there are more than a few. (at least 2 years ago when a few of the brass were picking up the details)
I think we should have cops on motor bikes in the town.
#18 & #16 the next test for police officer and firefighter will be given soon. Study up any you to can be one.
I mean, it’s not like these are the mean streets of Paterson… if they’re so overloaded with an ever increasing amount of work, why don’t we have Class 2 officers protecting the Verizon, PSE&G and NJ Transit trucks instead of full-time officers who have better things to do ?
#16 sick time is dictated by civil service law, which is the same for all civil service departments throughout the state of NJ.. Comp time is mandated and regulated by fed law ( flsa ) and is the same for all police departments throughout the stat as well as the country. In the village of Ridgewood an employee gives back 1/2 of whatever he accumulates regardless of amount. the pension has been cut from 65% to 60% after 25 years of employment and the amount is figured from an average of the employees last 3 years not the last year of service, also upon the death of a retiree the surviving spouse gets 50% of the retiree’s pension as a survivors benefit, if the office does 20 yrs he gets 50% pension and no medical at all.
That’s bullshit. Ridgewood is always running into other towns to back them up.
And if you want more cops, spread the pay around and don’t be greedy.
We have the same number of buildings and people as we have always had since the town was ‘built out’ in the late 1960s.
There is no need for an increase in the police force.
Do we need a patrolman making over 100k with a Sergeant making 150k looking over his shoulder answering the phone at headquarters when a civilian or retired cop could do that job?? They should be out on the road. Its a perfect example of wasted dollars.
So #23 Everything has remained the same since 1960. Wow they must have been good drugs you took back then to have time stand still for you.
Your wrong, Ridgewood is a busier town and the Ridgewood cops rely on other towns more than other towns rely on rwd. More often than not the supervisor is on the road and a ptl covers the desk, but the town got rid of the civilians to justify the expense of central dispatch and now they’re paying the price. So now there are no civilians left to work the desk.
The 6 VoR municipal retirees with average pensions of $105,000 would have been earning $161,538.46 on average before they retired with pensions at 65% of their comp prior to retirement. They don’t get social security depsite having made contributions, but that’s been a more than fair trade for them given they also get free healthcare for them and their spouse for life, with the benefits continuing for their spouse even after they die. Given you only need 25 years to retire, and we have seven cops retiring next year, we will be paying these costs for a long time to come. Average U.S. male life expectancy was 76 years as of 2010 data (source: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/hus/contents2012.htm#018 ), and assuming they got to 25 years at age 50, that’s 26 years worth of pension & healthcare coverage for our new retirees.
Thanks #22, I was referring to the municipal retirees who retired at 65% before the current contracts at 60%, that should have been clarified. The free healthcare benefits for life do extend to the spouse after the retiree has died, and 50% of the pension as a survivor’s benefit makes sense given it’s only for one person after the death of the retiree, not two. Out of interest, in your memory, how many able bodied RPD officers have retired with less than 25 years of service ? Seems like they don’t want to risk injury for “fear of losing their pension”. Another question: if municipal workers only got 15 days annually of paid vacation leave, and were forced to use them or lose them after accumulating a maxium of 30 days, would the accumulated sick leave, comp days and vacation pay liability for the Village be reduced from the +$7mn it stood at as of 2011 ?
Good advice #20, thanks. Sadly I am not a legacy in Ridgewood, only in Weekawken. Hudson County ain’t Bergen County.
27 to the best of my knowledge 5 cops retired early, I spoke with 1 of the cops who told me the PD. won’t grant comp time or holiday leave if it incurs ot, ie: a cop puts in a request to be off and it brings manpower down below 4 then you cannot have off because the PD would have to call someone in on ot to cover the shift. It seems the dept. has been paying the cops in comp time to avoid cash layouts and now it’s coming back to roost. I am a taxpayer in Ridgewood and I’ve watching things unfold and no matter what we do we’re going to have to pay the bill. You cannot expect people to work for free, judging by what I’ve been reading some posters would do just that if they were allowed to. If the town chooses to downsize the PD. regardless of consequence the bill comes due eventually and we ( tax payer) pays it. As far as the vacation table I asked the same cop the question you asked me. the answer makes sense 15 days vacation is a minimum set forth by civil service the rest of the time was negotiated decades ago and was modified in the late 80’s or early 90’s along with other sections of the contract. What ever unfunded liabilities were accrued they are the product of policy and downsizing of the work force.
So genius with the same number of buildings, houses, cars and people do tell us how come we need more cops? Do they get lonely when there’s only 3 squad cars at van neste?
How about all the wild bars and nite clubs? Oh wait…no more.
Then hire a civilian or a retired cop to man the desk
EVERY time I have set foot in Village hall there are least two at the desk. Put them on the road.
30 the town has changed since the 60’s and 70’s the transient population has increased, the valley has increased in size, the 2 nursing homes, have increased in capacity, and a senior citizens housing building has been built. There are more vehicles in the same amount of aging infrastructure. Legal mandates that require time and manpower ie: Domestic Violence, mandatory in service training, residents demand for personal attention is way up, prosecutors directives that force the rwd cops to handle out of DV’s that happen out of town but show up at valley hospital. Documentation of every arrest and police action that’s mandated by accreditation and the municipal joint insurance fund all add up to the need for more officers, and the solution is not hiring a civilian or retired cop to sit on the desk. If it were that easy I’m sure the town would have done that already.
I don’t believe that propaganda. If they cops were so busy I wouldn’t see them hanging around all the time. As far as reports/documentations, we paid for computers that go right into the records department. It takes less time for a patrolman to enter/save/send on the computer than in the past where reports were handwritten, then recorded. Patrolman in this town take a report then disappear. Smaller departments followup. Here its more impersonal. so be it. but we used to have police that actually lived in town.
Typical. I don’t see them doing anything they must not be busy…so based on then generalized statement we don’t need anymore cops…what about the matrix study that was done? Did it say we needed more or less cops? Do you remember the number they suggested. Surly with all your fact checking on the police dept you have stumbled upon that bit of info. But you know better… And what do you do if you have all this free time to watch police officers not work? And you paid for computers…..it 2014… Thanks? Maybe to save money we should have them use carrier pigeons.
The system to send reports directly to records failed miserably and the officer who championed that project was fired, then allowed to retire, early. The cops still have to send the report to hq’s then come in to hq’s print out the report and sign it. So you are going to see cops coming and going at hq’s. It’s apparent that you have a mindset that is predisposed to one position regardless of facts. You are not worth the time or effort to try and educate you.
Technology, the computers in the police cars, was supposed to equate to efficiency. (just burst your bubble about having more reports to file)
If police have the time to hang around (example=Van Neste, multiple cars) then its quite obvious to anyone that there is no need to add manpower when the expensive manpower we are paying for is IDLE.
I like the idea of carrier pigeons. They might do a better job of getting information between the units.
And no need for your arrogant comment about MY time…since you aren’t paying for it…however I AM paying for yours if you are a public employee!
(this is fun today. I enjoy a lively dialogue)
Wow, they actually have to press print and sign it? Then lets get the next union contract to recognize that milestone and pay them more money. Did that require special ‘in service’ training and annual ‘recertification’? Press/print/sign. Wow how exhausting.
And save your ‘time and effort’. There’s a big difference between ‘educate’ and ‘brainwash’ and please don’t confuse the terms.
Your one-sided diatribes are pure brainwashing tactics.
You know van neste is a post right…why not have them In the center of the business district?.. Also are you confusing parking enforcement vehicles with police vehicles ?.. You sir are hilarious. You seem to have all the answers. I like to hear your response on the matrix report? Seriously ?
And another typical response…. I pay your salary….. Do you think cops are exempt for paying taxes?
So unless you see a cop arresting someone or performing a traffic stop they are not working? How much experience do you have in law enforcement ? You make allot of assumption… Apparently you have all this free time to constantly monitor the police force and make comments on this blog…. Maybe you should ask your supervisor to cut back on your hours because they are not being used effectively.
“Of course, property taxes are higher in some towns and lower in others. But the ratio of tax dollars to police services remains roughly the same. Essentially, every homeowner, on average, pays roughly $500 a year for a full-time police department that is available to every person who lives or travels through the municipality 24 hours a day, 365 days a year.”
$500 divided by 365 days = $1.37 a day
That 6 cents an hour… Thanks boss you contributed a cup of coffee…. And that’s only a small…and that’s rounding up….
#37 the point to the post the cops still have to come in off the road to complete the paper work, which was the initial discussion. Perhaps a remedial reading course with an emphasis on comprehension would help you.
Well during the 12 hour shifts, there is ample time to press/print/sign. Did the union extract extra duty pay for that.
As far as the ‘van neste post’ per 38. I know what ‘2 post is’. I also know what a parking enforcement vehicle is. And I know what 2 or 3 crown Vics are doing at Van Neste. So save your BS . (and the ‘I pay your salary post wasn’t my post. but thanks for reminding me where my money goes)
Lets continue this a step further since you decided to tell us how lucky we are to have you on the payroll…
I propose an annual physical fitness test. Either you pass, or your are terminated.
Since you are ‘protecting us’ we want you to be in top shape.
After all, you were required to do so upon your acceptance for the job.
If you are not physically fit, you might get injured on the job which costs the town money. And then we would have to hire more cops to ‘save money on overtime’ right?
Not on the payroll. And I agree on the yearly pt exam for patrol officers. Your right on that point. But you still haven’t answered my question about your thoughts on the matrix study that was performed. Are you simply avoiding it?
Again you are complaining about 6 cents a day… Also, so if we don’t hire more cops and never replace the ones leaving…. What’s your answer for ot cost? Whats your magic number for the dept? Honest question…. All jokes aside. What would be your 10 year plan. Keep in mind retiring officers and the towns growing needs.
You make it clear you don’t like the police or agree with there conduct. However you know they are a necessity.
I think this ordinance is giving you everything you are asking for. It not asking to hire more then what we need. It states the numbers will be discussed yearly with the town needs in mind. Isn’t that what you want ? If the people, the Chief, and the vc say you know what we have what we need then that’s it till next year… So what your problem with this process? You rather have it be just a random number? That went against a study done by an outside company that was paid for by the village?
It’s not the current costs, its the future cost of pensions, healthcare and accumulated leave…
State and Federal law set forth rules Governing physical fitness for cops and the time required to train for it . Before you scream the cops should have to train on their own time. Understand there a re laws already in place governing this and with the current staffing levels the cops in Ridgewood provide training time to meet the current requirements.
An observer can see that some are grossly out of shape.
Its not good for their health.
Its not good for our budget.
Shape is a relative term, I watched a fat guy(cop) do a real good job taking down a nut job on Chestnut St. before help could arrive and he had a belly that looked like Mickey Lolich.
Sometimes it works in your favor…when you have to sit on the bad guy.
Sometimes it doesn’t…like when you have to run after the bad guy.
I’d suspect the ‘reasoning’ for retirements after 25 years is that when you get older (=out of shape) you tend to get hurt more often than a physically fit 20 something.
And off topic again….
Could this poster please tell me what the cost of that cup of coffee is when you include pensions, healthcare, accumulated sick leave, and the $80bn in underfunded pension and healthcare benefit liabilities we have in NJ ? You’re only discussing the current portion of the cost. How much am I paying a day if you add in the total cost, which we will have to pay for eventually as NJ residents through both property and state taxes ? Thanks.
49 most likely less then your car payment… For 24/7/365 security on call.
I’m not the one that posted the pervious comment. But if you live in this town you should be able to afford it. ( and most likely I make a fraction of what you make)