“Even if we agree that teachers work as much as the average worker, they are only working 10 months out of the year and those are 6 hour days, not 8 hour days.
And lets not talk about “teacher prep time” done before and after their 6 hour day, that is canceled out by the “overtime” done by the average worker before and after their 8 hour day.”
“The standard work day is 8 hours.
The standard number of work days per year (excluding 12 mandated holidays and 2 weeks vacation) is 238 (239 on leap years)
This results in 1906 hours per year (238.25 x 8 = 1906).
.
The standard school year is 180 days of instructional time (excludes holidays)
This results in 1080 hours per year (180 x 6 = 1080)
.
SO…
Assuming teachers work “just as hard” as other workers in any given hour,
Teachers still work only 57% as much during the year as other workers.
Given a teching and non-teaching job with the same annual pay, teachers hourly rate is much better and they usually get better benefits and the summer off
…but they continue to whine.”
As written by someone who has never taught a day in their life…
Id like the source for some(OK, all) of these assumptions.
Yeah, teachers are lazy and do no work and are overpaid and get all that time off…..which is why there is SUCH a glut of teachers. Please.
“And lets not talk about “teacher prep time” done before and after their 6 hour day, that is canceled out by the “overtime” done by the average worker before and after their 8 hour day.”
NO, LET’S. And don’t forget to explain how that “overtime” done by the average worker before and after their 8 hour day is just A-OK and not an injustice in and of itself.
Whiny Teachers. I agree. So. Damn. Annoying.
Listening to them “whine”, it is so tiring. Who wants to hear them continuously drone on about such ridiculously petty things as:
– WAAAAA – We’d like the air we breathe to be safe so we don’t get sick and die.
– WAAAAA – We’d like the people we are spending 8 hours with in a small room to be tested to insure they are not coming in infected day one. And perhaps institute some process that might protect us on a daily basis.
– WAAAA – we ‘d like a fair shot at not bringing home a disease that might not be deadly to some sets of people but could be deadly to our pesky parents or compromised kids.
– WAAAAA – We’d like to understand how come meetings to determine if its safe for us to go back to work inside are being held virtually because its unsafe to meet in person.
– WAAAAA – We’d like a modicum of respect. To not be painted as viscous devious lazy and worse (in front of our kids or in social media) because we are concerned for our safety and are asking for the rules laid out by the state be followed before we come back.
– WAAAA we can’t wait to get back to school even though it was such a pleasure taking phone calls from all of you understanding parents who showed amazing patience and grace while we shifted curriculum on our own and provided tech help, parental emotional support and listened to your stories of hardship as two parent working families etc. We definitely can’t relate to that.
– WAAAA – we miss hearing your kids tell us ALL OF YOUR family secrets. You know the ones you told them not to tell us.
– WAAAA – with this virtual stuff we can’t come in each day and talk to you special folks at pick up and drop off. We LIVE for those conversations. We are being deprived of those precious after working hours learning of your fantastic exploits and what makes your wonderful child far superior. We are so incomplete now. And saddest of all, we can’t collect those awesome candles, lotions and mugs accompanied by such sincere cards… I mean we are running low on all, how will we illuminate our mansions, drink our special brew coffees and keep our skin moisturized?
This blog is spot on and a fantastic representation of the humanity in our little hamlet. I agree these people are a menace to society. I can’t quite remember who said it best, but I think it was “Just get back to work and shut up.”
…and possibly die.
But do it quietly and quickly, there is another one just like you eager to serve us.
How hard is it to wear a mask and stay six feet apart from the next person? The teachers are clearly struggling with these simple concepts, yet I’m supposed to have confidence in their ability to teach the “white washed, euro-centric curriculum” to my children?
And btw – perhaps probabilities are not a part of said curriculum, but the transmission numbers in Ridgewood & Bergen county suggest its fake news to assume your going to die by showing up to work. Quite a bit of fear-mongering going on…
“How hard is it to wear a mask and stay six feet apart from the next person? ”
Yeah, tell that to a room of hyperactive 9 year olds.
The minimum required school year for teachers is 187 days.
There may be a teacher who only works 6 hours a day every day, but I have yet to meet him or her.
Most teachers do more work over the weekend.
I average around 50 hours a week rather than the thirty in your calculation.
I probably completed between 100 and 150 hours of training, planning, and writing over the summer.
I estimate I do in excess of 2000 hours a year, and I don’t think I am exceptional.
Your math is based on people in the private sector only getting 2 weeks vacation. I personally know plenty of people in the private sector who get 4 or 5 weeks vacation.
If this was really as easy as you say, we would have a long line of people who wanted to enter the profession … we don’t.
1) “The minimum required school year for teachers is 187 days.”
WRONG:
The minumum required school year is 180 days.
” Under N.J.S.A. 18A:7F-9, schools must be in session for 180 days to receive state aid:
“In order to receive any State aid pursuant to P.L.2007, c.260 (C.18A:7F-43 et al.), a school district, county vocational school district, or county special services school district shall comply with the rules and standards for the equalization of opportunity which have been or may hereafter be prescribed by law or formulated by the commissioner pursuant to law, including those implementing P.L.1996, c.138 (C.18A:7F-1 et al.) and P.L.2007, c.260 (C.18A:7F-43 et al.) or related to the core curriculum content standards required by P.L.2007, c.260 (C.18A:7F-43 et al.), and shall further comply with any directive issued by the commissioner pursuant to section 6 of P.L.1996, c.138 (C.18A:7F-6). The commissioner is hereby authorized to withhold all or part of a district’s State aid for failure to comply with any rule, standard or directive. No State aid shall be paid to any district which has not provided public school facilities for at least 180 days during the preceding school year, but the commissioner, for good cause shown, may remit the penalty”
2) “There may be a teacher who only works 6 hours a day every day, but I have yet to meet him or her.
Most teachers do more work over the weekend.
I average around 50 hours a week rather than the thirty in your calculation.”
Still less work than private sector workers.
Most workers work more than 8 hours a day. Most work early, late and on weekends, AND are ON CALL to their bosses 24/7 and often have to cancel or reschedule their “private time”. They START at a baseline of 40 hours a week and THEN do their additional work to usually work 50,60,70 hours a week.
The big difference is that teachers are PAID to work 6 hours a day for 180 days a year and if they decide to only work those 1080 hours, they will continue to be GURANTEED employment and GUARANTEED annual raises.
Private sector workers are PAID to work 8 hours a day for 238 days a year. If they decide to only work those 1906 hours, they will likely get fired or at best get no raise nor promotion.
.
3) “I probably completed between 100 and 150 hours of training, planning, and writing over the summer.”
So you “probably” did some OPTIONAL self-improvemnet and light work over the summer which works out to the equivalent of 12.5 – 18.75 eight-hour days (at most 3.75 weeks).
The worker has to work every day in the summer for 8 hour days PLUS their unpaid overtime AND has to find time (and self-fund) their own self improvement if they want to keep their unguaranteed job.
.
You continue to play the victim, while you are actually the privileged.
If it’s so easy and such a good job why don’t you try teaching?
1) Contract in Ridgewood.
2) Moving the goalposts.
3) Again move the goalposts.
I responded to the post about the number of hours worked. You just changed the numbers and misstated the facts.
Am I saying that teachers work more than anyone … of course not. There are farmers that regularly work 16 hour days, often 7 days a week. Many people work long hours. I was just addressing the standard lies and misinformation from the original poster about teacher hours.
My husband was not a teacher. He has a BS degree and a graduate certificate. I am a retired teacher. I have a BS, MS, and 21 extra hours. Our school workday day was from 7:45-3:15 which is 7 1/2 hours. On days we had teachers’ meetings you could add another 1/2 an hour. I spent at least another 2 hours a day on making lesson plans, gathering teaching materials, grading papers, and communication with parents. Sunday afternoon was spent in the classroom getting ready for the next week. When we figured out our hourly pay rate, my husband made twice what I made. Considering their education, teachers make much less per hour worked than other professionals with comparable amounts of education.
A teacher who makes $60,000/yr is getting paid $55.56/hour BY CONTRACT.
Note: $60,518 is the LOWEST salary – Step1, BA on the Ridgewood Teacher Pay Scale
A private sector worker who makes $60,000/yr is getting paid $31.48/hour.
So teachers are paid 76.49% MORE per hour than private sector workers.
=============================
To put it another way,
If the $60,000/yr ($31.48/hr) private sector worker
got paid at the $60,000/yr ($55.56/hour) teacher rate
the private sector worker would get paid $105,897.36/yr
(or an additional $45,897.36/year)
That’s quite a difference.
But advantaged teachers will continue to play the victim.
” I was just addressing the standard lies and misinformation from the original poster about teacher hours.”
Wrong again….
The “lies and misinformation” are from the teachers.
EVERYONE (well, most everyone) works well over their required/contractual hours.
The point is that teachers are only REQUIRED to work 1080 hours per year(180, six hour days)
while most private sector workers are REQUIRED to work 1906 hours per year (238, eight hour days)
Also teachers get the summer (2 months+) off AND have GUARANTEED job security, GUARANTEED annual raises and premium health care.
Yet these privileged few, continue to complain and whine and play the victim, while being worshipped as “heros”.
Shameful.
Since teachers and their self serving unions have declared they are non-essential employees lets pay them what they are worth. What does a babysitter make an hour? There is no other profession where you know the salary when you start the job yet complain bitterly and ad nauseam about said salary until the day you die. Home school or private school is the only choice parents need to make.
I don’t know whether to be embarrassed for you (at your lack of knowledge) or amused (at your lack of knowledge). Go spend even two week in the classroom with your kids. Then we can dialogue.
Hey Beth, let’s make this very simple.
If they mandated that school is now 12 months a year with 8 hour days will you take the same pay?
(You know, like the private sector worker making the same annual salary as you but working 826 hours more than you.)
I thought not.
OK
I think we’re done here.
Teachers literally have an effect on every single person in our country, their job could quite literally be the most vital and you think they should be paid what a babysitter gets and shut their greedy wining mouths anytime they have a problem? You are out of touch with reality or a paid troll. You can let Betsy Devos know that her time is nearly up.
Teachers have to deal with bad behavior kids most not all of the kids that even their own parents don’t want them at home
I personally know every teacher in 2 local districts, and I can tell you that out of all those teachers I only know ONE who matches the description
You set forth. I believe that teacher does not belong with the rest of us. You have, in essence, described a completely inadequate teacher. I have 224 students this school year. I know each of them & most of their families on a very personal level. I have to, to do my best at knowing how to reach each student, to make each of them feel comfortable enough to wholeheartedly do what I ask of them. One of my most heartfelt phases is “there is something absolutely lovable about each one of you”. I’m a horrible liar. To state that phrase in front of 37 or more students at a time, taking time to look into each of their eyes, before moving on, I MUST be able to sincerely believe this. Knowing students on that level is not a task completed in an 8 hour period. Providing and teaching material necessary for social, emotional, and academic excellence for my students is not something I would be able to accomplish within the parameters of an 8 hour day, 181 days each year. Most of us thrive in the classroom, with our students. Most of us experience a heart wrenching feeling of despair each time our students express how much they wish they were in our classrooms, with us & their peers. We are all held hostage by a not so invisible captor, at this moment. Comments like those in the original post are not only misguided, but also only true of an extremely small portion of teachers throughout MANY nations. Many of us have fought to become & remain teachers. We have met the current needs of our students as well as we possibly could. We agonizingly search for ways to reach our students on the levels they desperately need under any and all circumstances. We are passionate about giving our students what they need to not just survive, but to THRIVE. We teach the entirety of future generations. And the majority of my colleagues in the US adhere to this hard to attain code of conduct. So, please befriend a teacher who meets these standards, and revisit your comments. As a side note…I stopped writing several times to respond to students who contacted me while I was creating this comment. It is roughly 30 minutes before my contract hours begin. My last contact with a student last night was at 10:31 pm.
“Teachers literally have an effect on every single person in our country, their job could quite literally be the most vital …”
My God , how long are you going to keep pedaling this trope.
This could be applied to thousands of occupations.
Engineers,
Electricians,
Plumbers,
Doctors,
Waste Removal,
Computer Programmers,
Factory Workers,
Long Shoremen,
Police,
Bankers
Designers
Farmers
Researchers,
etc,
etc,
etc
literally have an effect on every single person in our country, their job could quite literally be the most vital .
…and teachers couldn’t do their jobs without them.
Teachers ALSO do an important job.
They get paid very well and have lots of perks that others don’t have like
summers off,
shortened work days,
premium health care,
guaranteed raises
and guaranteed employment
but you are in no way anymore special or important than most every other worker.
Get over yourself.
” personally know every teacher in 2 local districts, and I can tell you that out of all those teachers I only know ONE who matches the description
You set forth. I believe that teacher does not belong with the rest of us.”
Have you FIRED this teacher?
NO.
Because she is part of the protected privileged class of teachers who get paid a premium hourly rate, have a guaranteed job and will continue to get guaranteed raises and have summers off.
Just proves my point.
To post this hate from your trashy pulpit that does not represent the Ridgewood I grew up in or my parents grew up in or their parents grew up in on a day when teachers are dutifully headed back into the petri dish of a school system that is RPS to put their lives on the line because they need their jobs to support their families is unforgivable and unconscionable .
To relentlessly badger people willing to craft eloquent responses full of emotion and grace with the only goal being to somehow bring you to the light that teachers do care, do make a difference in your childs (god help your children) lives and aren’t terrible people solidifies your place as a pussy pimple on the ass of this town. And the ass is huge these days…full of spineless boards and administrators and townspeople like yourself too afraid to leave their homes for a mtg to determine the fate of their peers. The irony is deep. Too frightened to stand up to the few who speak the loudest and threaten from a position of fear blatantly demonstrating their own self hatred. Full of “elected” officials who only care about their own agendas and will make decisions they know are wrong not to upset the masses.
So yes, go ahead and continue to compare teachers to electricians and plumbers but realize teachers are not comparing themselves to anyone, they are simply trying to feel safe while they educate your kids and make a living so many are unfit and unwilling to do.
Absolutely, go forward with your mathematical equations breaking down work hours spent doing something you so obviously are perplexed, outwitted and ultimately threatened by.
Sure, go ahead and discount everything that has been written with one giant swipe of your cowardly keyboard. You sir or madam are making this world a much worse place for the kids you feel are being so shortchanged. And that is quite an accomplishment in 2020.
The only point you are proving is that you are an uneducated, shit stirring, malcontent twit.
Responses not needed – you lost – as soon as you woke up today as you do everyday in your sad. little. life.
““When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.”
― Socrates
Teacher Heal Thyself
Some of your desperate slander:
“To post this hate from your trashy pulpit…”
“…solidifies your place as a pussy pimple on the ass of this town. And the ass is huge these days…full of spineless boards and administrators and townspeople like yourself too afraid to leave their homes for a mtg to determine the fate of their peers. ”
“Too frightened to stand up to the few who speak the loudest and threaten from a position of fear blatantly demonstrating their own self hatred.”
” … your cowardly keyboard.”
“…you are an uneducated, shit stirring, malcontent twit.”
” you lost – as soon as you woke up today as you do everyday in your sad. little. life.”
Pathetic.
Go back to your privileged part time job where you can hold sway over children who will blindly believe whatever you say and you won’t have to engage in debate (nor slander).
You mean libel.
Slander is spoken, libel is written.
You should’ve paid better attention in school. Pathetic.
This was fun…my takeaway is that everyone is emotional about their position, which is to be expected. At the end of the day (literally), we all went about our business. Schools reopened….gyms reopened….soon indoor dining. News also came out today that a vaccine is around the corner, possibly as early as Nov. 1, at which time this blog will be loaded with first time anti-vaxxers. Lets try to keep things civil for goodness sake. We still have an exciting election around the corner to spend our divide.
Teachers are incredible people that serve an incredible purpose for humanity, even thou I don’t always agree with their liberal tendencies and repeated play of the victim card. And yes, residents have their flaws that come out in horrifying ways at times, but have earned that right by virtue of the taxes paid and the associated waste by folks who signed up to the task for residents to beat up on over every decision they make. Today, teachers did their job…so even thou they wont hear it much today (or sadly ever in some cases), thank you teachers for showing up and doing a great job teaching our kids.
I am teacher employed in Iowa, 190 day contract—7:30 am to 3:30 pm = 8 hours.
190 days x 8 hours=1520 hours of contracted time.
Starting pay of 1st year teacher is 39k in our district. 1520 hrs / 39k=$ 25.66 an hour
I have been teaching for 10 years, earned my masters and today I am earning 50 k a year. Decade of teaching plus a masters degree and I am making an extra 11k a year.
My average day at school is from 7:15 am—4 pm or longer due having to drive a school bus route or a staff meeting.
I teach 150 students, 300+ parents depending on how many families have been divorced or passed away etc. I have a school principal, superintendent, and school board as my boss. I teach special education students of all disabilities and severities. I have been trained in mandatory reporting to identify and protect students from being abused physically, sexually, and mentally. I have trained to deal with emergency situations from student allergies, mental health situation I.e. suicide, school shootings and now I have been classified as essential work due to covid 19. On top of my teaching job I also farm 600 acres of corn and soybeans. —not whining or complaining, or bragging, just informing you about my Situation.
I have worked jobs in a factory, over the road trucking, construction, and in the private sector. All difficult and challenging in different ways. Teaching is no different—- it can be mentally and physically exhausting at times and it does have some perks.
My fellow teachers from my district spend their summers working other jobs, taking care of their families, coaching, or taking classes to keep their teaching license up to date. We are not saints or martyrs—-just trying to make a living and try to enjoy our career.
Not for one second would I judge, whine, or complain about how easy someone’s job is not having worked in that area before.
There are great teachers in our nation and there are poor ones. Just as there are great parents and students, and there are terrible parents and students.
Anyone who complains about teachers should quit their job, earn a college degree, earn an teaching license, and get to work.
I will say after 10 years of teaching I do look at other jobs and I am envious of vacation being taken during the school year, yearly or monthly bonuses, 7-8% annual pay increases, not having to deal with the community-parents, students, and a school board. It be nice just to go to work and then head home.
The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. Either way most people who complain about teachers have some terrible experience or story that haunts them. After decade of dealing with worst of humanity—-you become numb to ignorant people.
Lastly—-I would love a pay raise and make more money. Who wouldn’t?
Or maybe I should do it for free or quit and get a real job.
There you go
Lets have all teachers quit and parents can home school. Then the amazing individuals of this discussion can find another profession to whine about.
Nice diversion… libel/slannder.
Just proves my point.
You have no legitimate position so you revert to personal attacks.
Also pretty desperate bringing in an Iowa teacher.
Do you feel the need to mobilize the entire NEA to assist in your debate with a single individual armed with just a handful of facts?
Sadly, the Iowa teacher just provides another set of facts to prove my point.
Iowa teacher making $39,000/yr and working 1520 hours makes $25.66/hr
Private sector worker making $39,000/yr and working 1906 hours makes $20.46/hr
The Iowa teacher still makes 25.42% MORE per hour than the private sector worker.
The legitimate position is teachers are not duping the system, they work hard and they deserve a little respect.
No-one supporting teachers on this blog is comparing their job to other professions, you are the sole one hand clapping.
Further some here find it offensive and by all of the time you’ve spent with your calculator etc quite alarming that there is a burning need to put down such a noble profession, especially in this time of particular hardship.
I have to wonder if a teacher hurt you deeply at some point? I hope not, that would be sad.
What wouldn’t be sad is if you realized your arguments are falling on deaf ears, no-one here appears to support you and your equations of comparison. Are they made to satisfy yourself – is that a theme in your life?
Unreal.
Just how arrogant and self-important are you to assume that you are the arbiter of “legitimate positions”.
But that is not really surprising given that you are egotistical enough to be unable to accept fact based criticisms of your “noble” profession. Worse, you are narcissistic enough to assume that your position is shared by everyone and those who do not are only doing so since they were “hurt by a teacher”.
Wow.
No one is saying that most teachers don’t work hard.
All I’m doing is stating the facts that teachers work 55% less hours for the same pay as private sector workers making the same amount of money.
That’s a cold hard fact. Your refusal to accept this reality says a lot about you.
I do find it quite alarming by all of the time you’ve spent and have such a burning need to put down someone who is only pointing out objective facts about teachers, especially in this time of particular hardship.
I will not work one minute without getting paid for it. Said a teacher to everyone anywhere.
No one forced you to become teachers. If you don’t like your job, change it like anyone else would be expected to. But enough of the self-pity garbage. You aren’t heroes for doing your job.
Most of you don’t even do it well. Kids are graduating knowing barely enough to even hold a job. 95% of you churn out standardized curriculum in an uninspired, robotic way, and then whine when the kids won’t pay attention. Why would they when half of you have the charisma of a wet mop?
We heard you doing your job while our kids were at home. We see the robotic, mundane work you are oh-so-proud of. Why? You are glorified babysitters, and judging by the stuff that goes down in schools across the country, you aren’t even good at that part. Enough is enough. Shut up and do your job like the rest of us.
You aren’t special. You are teachers in one of the most terribly-performing countries on the planet, already being paid more than you truly earn. Count yourself lucky and be quiet.