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>An Open Letter To Incoming Officers Of The Ridgewood Federated HSA.

>An Open Letter To Incoming Officers Of The Ridgewood Federated HSA.

Dear Ines, Linda, Kathy, Tara, Morgan and Sheila. This year will test the relevancy of the HSA more than ever. The situation over the TERC math has left a great deal of ill feeling in the Village and the ongoing situation over the proposed Hospital “renewal” continues to be divisive.

With almost a complete changeover of personnel, the 2007-2008 HSA has the opportunity to be a positive force for healing the school community and being seen as body that leads the way in advocating for our children’s welfare.

Last year the HSA decided not to take a public stand for or against the Hospital proposal. However, the neutral position was seen as support by the Hospital in it’s meeting with the Planning Board on May 1st 2007, when Audrey Meyers stated, “we have met with the Federated HSA…we have the support of the community.”

In addition, the outgoing Federated HSA Secretary did make a very public stand in a letter to the Editor in support of Valley Hospital and condemned those who are opposed to the Hospital’s proposal. Given her position on the HSA, it was imprudent for her to make her personal views public.

As the Federated HSA did sponsor a presentation from Valley Hospital at which the Concerned Residents group was not asked to attend, it would restore balance if the Concerned Residents were asked to present to the Federated HSA, without Valley Hospital.

Due to the fact that the Ridgewood parents are divided over the issue of the Hospital’s plans, the neutral position is still the correct course to take. However, a neutral position does not preclude the Federated HSA from taking a strong position as a watchdog over our children’s safety.

Engagement in this issue should not amount to hearing a talk by Valley Hospital staff; deciding “these seem like nice people and I think we can trust them”, then moving into the next agenda item. This does not constitute a thorough examination of the issue!

Because our children’s education and personal safety is at stake, the HSA now needs to become fully engaged. This means reviewing and questioning all of the tiny details with a healthy skepticism, believing nothing until the facts are fully confirmed with actions.

The parents of students at Ridgewood schools have a right to demand and receive answers to the health and safety issues that surround the Hospital proposal. It is the duty of the Federated HSA to apply pressure on the BOE to demand that the Hospital provides answers.

Please use the 2007 / 2008 to reshape the Ridgewood Federated HSA into an inclusive body that becomes known as a strong advocate for our children’s educational and person health, demanding answers and shaping the Village agenda.

Hotwire

50 thoughts on “>An Open Letter To Incoming Officers Of The Ridgewood Federated HSA.

  1. >Don’t hold your breath.

  2. >I know for a fact that Ines doesn’t like TERC math, but did not sign the petition. She’s done a GREAT job as Travell’s treasurer for the past few years. Maybe she will step up to the plate and follow her common sense to get our schools back on track! Ines, if you are listening… Bring the traditional math that Willard and Hawes have to the other 4 schools currently using substandard math. If it’s good enough for them; then it should be good enough for the rest.

  3. >You actually have faith in the HSA moms? Federated is even worse, it’s the HSA times 9. Ridgewood’s government starts here and it’s just horrible.

  4. >I would just like to clarify that I was not Federated HSA Secretary at the time that my letter supporting Valley appeared in the Ridgewood News. My term had ended. Not that I think it would matter anyway. Individuals do not give up their right to have opinions just because they volunteer. Another clarification: Federated did not “sponsor a presentation from Valley at which the Concerned Residents group was not asked to attend.” In reality 1) Valley approached Federated and asked if they could make a presentation. Many Village groups and businesses have done that over the years. 2) I don’t know if the “Concerned Residents” group existed at the time of that meeting — I think not. Many of the Federated members at that meeting stated that it was the first time they had heard anything about the Valley proposal. It was simply a presentation by Valley where they asked if anyone had any questions. People asked questions. Answers were given. Simple as that. Frankly, when I heard the presentation, I couldn’t really imagine that there would be much opposition to the plan. Ha!

    Finally, I would agree that Federated HSA — along with neighbors, parents, teachers, and other concerned residents — should ask questions of Valley when they are putting together their construction plans. That’s what anyone with an interest should do. I don’t think you need to single out Federated as having some “duty to apply pressure on the BOE.” We all have that duty.

    Best of luck to the 2007-08 Federated members. My advice to you is to do what you are supposed to do — represent the parents in your individual HSAs. That is where you get your marching orders, not from anonymous bloggers!

  5. >Note to 7:05 – you’re obviously one of those “energy vampires” that the media has been referring to lately – someone who deflates the positive and altruistic efforts of others.

    I’m sure I’m correct in my assumption that you’ve NEVER been to a Federated meeting. Otherwise you wouldn’t have shown your ignorance (FYI, there are 11 HSA presidents). You probably have never even been involved in the HSA, preferring to cast stones from afar.

    The goal of Federated has always been to advocate for the educational and social welfare of Ridgewood children and the individual communities. But Federated is not and will never be mandated with the responsibility of setting policy and curriculum.

    Since the Valley expansion isn’t about the education of our children, it’s inappropriate for Federated to present a public position on the matter.

    Unless it happened in the last few weeks, Federated did not sponsor a presentation from Valley at which the Concerned Residents group was not asked to attend. Federated meetings aren’t debates or forums for rebuttals. But if you’ve got something to discuss, pick up the phone and ask to be put on the agenda. Last year, Federated was contacted by a Valley representative inquiring about making a presentation to the HSA presidents. Upon the discretion of the Federated president, Valley was invited to come and speak. Three Valley employees came to a regular Federated meeting where they talked about the project from several different perspectives. We had the opportunity to ask many questions, which we did. At a later date, we at Federated were invited to come to the hospital to see the revised plan presentation. While the new presentation was attended primarily (but not entirely) by the HSA presidents and Board members from schools whose students attend or will be attending BF, we once again had the opportunity to ask many, many questions and received answers that many felt comfortable with.

    As a group, we never discussed the pros or cons of the expansion because it was not for Federated to decide if the project should move forward. Every attendee walked away with her own feelings about it and reserved the right to make those feelings public or not.

    Federated will always be a watchdog over our children’s safety. The “Drive 25” and October “Walk to School” campaigns are two examples of Federated-endorsed programs to help keep our kids healthy and safe. But unrealistic expectations about the role Federated will play in the math and Valley controversies sets everyone up for failure and disappointment – especially for the HSA presidents who volunteer huge amounts of time for the betterment of the schools they represent.

    It is not the duty of Federated to apply pressure on the BOE to demand that the hospital provide answers, which the hospital has already done several times.

    If you want answers … go get them yourself. Maybe it’s time YOU did a little work and stop blaming others for your dissatisfaction.

  6. >Laurie,

    If only the HSA mommies listened to their constituents, but alas they do not.

    It has been my observation that the HSA officers elected (if you can call it that) to represent the parents in our school only represent their own social interests. Hence the term, social sluts.

    I have yet to see an HSA confront the BOE with an issue that has concerned parents. They function as a wholly owned subsidiary of the BOE controlled by its administrator, the principal.

    Like so many other parents, I have given up hoping that Federated or the HSAs will cease their sycophantic fealty to the BOE and truly represent the parents’ interests.

  7. >7:05 is absolutely right about where our lousy government begins in this village.

    It starts right at home with HSA mommies.

  8. >If the Valley expansion proposal is approved, our children will walk by a demolition/construction site on their way to/from school—for the next 10+ years!! BF students will experience all of the noise and airborne pollution associated with a demolition/construction site—for the next 10+ years!!! Tell me again: how does the Valley expansion NOT concern our children’s education?

    HSA members–you can make a difference! You can protect Ridgewood children. Fight the Valley Expansion!

  9. >The goal of Federated has always been to advocate for the educational and social welfare of Ridgewood children and the individual communities……ok so tell me how the construction at valley is not going to effect BF students ? I think you should get off your horse and start fullfilling your intended purpose…

  10. >11:22,

    As I recall the HSA mommies of Federated wrote a letter to the editor to the Ridgewood News during the survey probe by the Federal Government supporting the illegal actions of the BOE.

    Please, spare me the righteousness, “…Federated is not and will never be mandated with the responsibility of setting policy and curriculum.”

    Just another example of your hypocrisy and obsequiousness.

  11. >What is this “mommies” thing? Why do certain of the anti-Valley-ites always opt for a derisive tone when trying to make a point? Does the fact that you write your lame, redundant comment with a sneer on your face make your point stronger or more relevant? Or does it just satisfy an ego–yours–that doesn’t have the fortitude to step into the spotlight? It’s a lot easier–and more cowardly–to lob verbal grenades in from the sidelines than actually work with others (even those who vehemently disagree with you) for change. If you want to take on the HSA, that’s fine. Just do it with facts, and not your silly, derogatory nicknames.

  12. >yes but when the “math moms ” were called housewives that was OK …

  13. >that doesn’t have the fortitude to step into the spotlight? It’s a lot easier–and more cowardly …I dont know why dont you ask the Ridgewood News when they publish put up job articles from anonymous frauds with fake blogs ?

  14. >8:15 am

    “Math moms” is derisive as well, It was convenient and had the proper alliterative attributes to work for the anti-TERC-ers.

    8:17 am

    What is your point? Who cares what the Ridgewood News says?

  15. >”…dont know why dont you ask the Ridgewood News when they publish put up job articles from anonymous frauds with fake blogs…”

    Let it go…that’s not the point of this thread. I never called the math moms housewives, but someone keeps calling me an “HSA mommie”. That’s the trouble with all this anonymous posting…no one knows who said what so how can you go back and criticize? The fact is, it is definitely tiresome to keep seeing the “mommies” comment…although that doesn’t bother me as much as “social sluts.” Really, can’t you people have a dialogue without the name-calling?

    And why drag up what the members of Federated allegedly did all those years ago (writing a letter about the subsequently-proven-to-NOT-be-illegal survey)? There is not a single member of the organization now that was part of the group back then. Don’t criticize the current members for something they had nothing to do with.

  16. >Federated will always be a watchdog over our children’s safety. The “Drive 25” and October “Walk to School” campaigns are two examples of Federated-endorsed programs to help keep our kids healthy and safe. But unrealistic expectations about the role Federated will play in the math and Valley controversies sets everyone up for failure and disappointment – especially for the HSA presidents who volunteer huge amounts of time for the betterment of the schools they represent.

    ….so you dont think a large construction site like Valley has anything to do with child safety?

  17. >I am with you, 8:34am. This name-calling comes from the usual suspects: anonymous posters who have their own axe to grind, just not the guts to show themselves in the light of day. I have NTG to do with the HSAs… my family is long past this stuff.

    But, as with everything else on this blog… TERC, Valley, BOE, Village Gov, and so on… Unless you volunteer your time to make this community better? Shut up and get out of the way.
    To be fair, I privately question the “social agenda” of many people in the above groups. However, when I find an issue thats important to me and my family? I step up, raise my hand, and get involved.

    Until you’re willing to do get involved? Dont critique the efforts of others!

  18. >8:43. Yes, a large construction site will have an impact on child safety, as well as adult safety. It’s an issue that needs to be addressed–by Valley, the Planning Board, the Village Council and by citizens. The process is in place to address it. Do your homework and present your facts when the time is right. The first presentation by the citizens group was very impressive and impactful. And it didn’t rely on screaming and name-calling to make a valid point.

  19. >Until you’re willing to do get involved? Dont critique the efforts of others!…

    How do you know posters are not involved I hear this over and over you have NO idea who is posting.Stop trying to silence people .I know for a fact that many posters on this blog are very involved in Village affairs. Just beacuse some dosnt sgree with everything that goes on does not mean they are not involved.

    The Concerned Citizens
    the Math Moms for example are very involved ,so are all the teachers and village employees that post ..

    by the way its makes you sound like a joke to post as anonymous and complain others do the same

  20. >Actually, I believe the “Math Moms” didn’mind being called “housewives” or “math moms”. If you’ve ever spoken with any of them, you would understand that they are a very intellegent, highly credentialed group of women who are comfortable and confident with themselves (as well they should be). I think they actually got a kick out of the “housewife” reference because it pointed out that even a “housewife” is more intellegent and well informed than our BOE members with respect to our District’s math programs.

    Can we stop the name calling now?

  21. >I posted a comment at 7:15 am. I suppose I was trying to appeal to members of the HSA because I regard it as a group of people that really cares about the welfare of our children. The Drive 25 campaign is a fine example of the good the HSA can do for our kids. It’s too bad that the dialogue fell apart…

    Readers please know: Valley hopes to demolish the Phillips Building, which contains asbestos (right off Van Dien, where kids walk to school). Valley wants to widen the Van Dien/Linwood intersection; this will only encourage people to drive even more recklessly through one of the most dangerous intersections in R’wood (I live a block away and have almost been hit more times than I can count–many times with baby in stroller). I would guess that hundreds of children pass through this intersection each day, twice a day. Anyone who is against this expansion is principally concerned for our kids’ safety. I have not observed any name-calling from the folks who just want a safe, suburban town.

  22. >rhs parent:

    Is that any less anonymous than I am? I am a rhs parent too. Does that help you narrow it down?

    Stop being so self-important. The only issues you get involved with have to do with are “popular” causes that get your mug shot into the Ridgewood News or that might help your child’s college application chances.

    Dont hold your breath. Too much hot air isnt good for you.

    Anonymous

  23. >Is that any less anonymous than I am? I am a rhs parent too. Does that help you narrow it down?

    I have never complained about anyone posting anonymously, unlike you, the Ridgewood news and the floggers…

    Yet you all manage to post anonymously yourselves?

    What’s good for the goose is good for the gander?

    and sorry to say, but NO one cares who you are stop fooling yourself

  24. >”The goal of Federated has always been to advocate for the educational and social welfare of Ridgewood children and the individual communities. But Federated is not and will never be mandated with the responsibility of setting policy and curriculum. “

    Sorry, but I have to disagree with this. Federated should represents the parents in the district and their concerns and serve as watchdogs for the parental community.

    The problem is that Federated and the BOE tend to agree politely with all that the district administration says.

    You should always advocate for parents because…

    1) You are using funds that are donated by the parents. This puts you in the position of being lobbyists for parents, not the administration.

    2) Acknowledge that sometimes the district does not act in the best interest of the parents and children. Purchasing TERC2 math is a glowing example of a decision that was made ignoring input from the parental community. Would you agree to any new curriculum that the district suggested? What if they suggested bringing back “whole language” or eliminating the teaching of History in the elementary schools? Since there are no statewide tests associated with History that may happen soon, would you simply nod in agreement?

    3) The Valley Expansion directly affects BF middle school children in a negative way. There is no obvious positive value to the Valley Expansion to the children in the RPS. Valley doesn’t pay a dime in school taxes and the parents do!!!

    Have you noticed your donations going down? Why do you think that might be?

    So, we can politely stop using the term “HSA mommies” I promise.

    However, if you are going to hold these offices, represent the parents, not the BOE and its Principals.

  25. >There’s some irony in the fact that the kids are probably safer driving to school than walking in Ridgewood.

  26. >I guess the phrase “HSA mommies” strikes a nerve. Well it should. When the women of the HSAs start acting like intelligent individuals and not Stepford Wives then they will garner more respect.

    As for not volunteering and being involved, you couldn’t be more wrong.

    Anonymous

  27. >8:34 AM,

    You are obviously a sycophant. “…subsequently-proven-to-NOT-be-illegal survey.”

    It was ruled by the US Department of Education that the survey was conducted in an illegal manner.

    Look it up if you don’t believe me.

    The spin stops here, honey.

  28. >Also, please don’t be persuaded by Valley’s contributions to the new sports field. The shredded tires that cover turf fields are toxic and actually let off gasses when they degrade. Doctors say that more injuries occur when children play on these fields, as the surface does not “give” the way dirt and grass do.

    All in all, Valley and its plans constitute a big danger for our kids. HSA, please take this on!

  29. >Actually, 1:22, why don’t YOU look it up? I happen take my legal guidance from the COURTS and not the US Dept of Education (which, while an arm of the U.S. government is NOT an agency that gets to decide what IS and is NOT legal). The COURT — that is, The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit — ruled on 12/1/05 FOR THE SCHOOL DISTRICT. To quote from the conclusion of the court’s judgment: “Because no constitutional violation of the right to privacy or the First Amendment right against compelled speech has been shown, we will affirm the grant of summary judgment to the School Defendents.” Signed by judges Smith, Fisher and Alito (current US Supreme Court Justice). You can download the decision yourself at http://www.ca3.uscourts.gov/opinarch/042849.pdf

    Yes, the Ridgewood Survey resulted in a new state law regarding surveys and kids, fine, but it was NOT illegal and that was the FINAL word of the court, like it or not.

    And THIS is where YOUR spin stops. 😉

  30. >Oh please 2:45, get your facts straight about turf fields…although I have NO idea what that has to do with Valley. You must be new to this blog, but we’ve already beaten this issue to death…Maple field is not “toxic” or letting off mystery gases. And doctors do not say that more injuries occur on the type of field we have at Maple. Sounds like you are using outdated info.

    I love how the issues just keep comin around, with misinformation and disinformation spread, discounted, and then spread again. Almost funny.

  31. >That darn survey issue comes up a lot and most of the time one key point is missed.

    If the BOE had done a mea culpa and just apologized for giving children(yes, at 16 we can call them that) a survey with sexual questions on it without informing parents first the darn thing wouldn’t have ended up such a big deal.

    This school district has a long history of not only ignoring parents who disagree, but also maligning them. (See Reilly takes out ad against Ms. Nunn.)

    And that is why the HSA gets brought up because if you disagree in this town and ask for something like a quality math textbook for your kid you are portrayed as an anarchist.

    Every other town that fought against TERC had all the parents united against the district and eventually won by getting a better math curriculum.

    Ridgewood is the only town where parents turned against other parents not because they knew anything about math curriculum, but because they supported the district and BOE blindly.

    There’s your problem right there HSA folks.

  32. >Why do some of you refer to the women and men who make up the HSA as “mommies?” That is a word that a young child uses to refer to his/her mother. It is kind of creepy, no – very creepy, to think that there is an adult who refers to another adult as “mommy.” Or is it just a juvenile attempt at a put down?

  33. >Blaise d.

    Haven’t you noticed? Valley FINANCED Maple Field–“Valley Hospital” is actually engraved in flagstone at the entrance. I guess you haven’t noticed “Valley Hospital” emblazoned on our scoreboards either…hmmm.

    And, yes, shredded tires are toxic (I am a doctor), and hard surfaces DO cause more injuries. So, talk about misinformation….

  34. >2:52 you’re an idiot trying to split hairs with misinformation on illegal survey. The Constitution does not say, one shouldn’t steal. Yet, stealing is illegal. The 66 questions on the survey that was ruled by a government agency to have been asked illegally of the children were real. It happened and it happened here. That illegality was a violation of a federal code. And code violations are illegal. Smoking pot is illegal but the Constitution is silent on that, too. So if you get busted with a joint, try telling the judge that it is not a constitutional violation and see if he lets you walk away.

  35. >6:41 it is obvious that the phrase “hsa mommies” is a put down. It is not juvenile and it is referenced not at an individual but at a group. This group is not respected by many and the group’s actions– to blindly nod away and support whatever the powers that be have to say– have earned them that title. By their actions, they do not seem have any familiarity with a thought process that includes critical thinking, something all adults need. They can lose this derisive title, but what hope is there that they will change their ways to merit the respect of the wider community?

    Not much.

  36. >Charlie Reilly is upset because he is wrong again about the illegal survey given to minor children.

    Charlie, didn’t the court also say that a jury could reasonably conclude that the survey was not voluntary and that the students were made to take it?

    Or did you forget that part of their opinion?

    The spin stops here big boy.

  37. >OK, Dr. Whoever. (Seuss?) Valley did NOT finance Maple. Where the heck have you been? Valley was one contributor, but many many citizens, like me, made donations for the field. I am sure you can get a list of the contributors from the parents who organized the whole thing.

    And as for the field safety, please do some research on the specific field that is installed at Maple. It is not Astroturf or any other old-style turf, which was in fact dangerous. It is called FieldTurf and you can read about the technology at https://www.fieldturf.com/product/overview.cfm. While your statement that “hard surfaces do cause injuries” is correct, that does not apply to Maple. The surface is not “hard.” Have you been there? Have you done ANY research whatsoever before blowing your smoke? FieldTurf has been installed and played-on with great success at over 40 NCAA college fields and 24 NFL stadiums around the country. Doctors (maybe some of your colleagues) LOVE FieldTurf because it has been proven to result in FEWER injuries — even FEWER than on natural grass. Just go do the research, I don’t have time to make this stupid argument again to someone who can’t be bothered to think before speaking.

  38. >Yep, I’ve been there. And I hate the idea of children playing on plastic and rubber that needs to be replaced every few years. And I’m not sure why our kids, 4 yr. olds, 6 yr. olds–little kids, need to play on NCAA or NFL turf.

    No doubt, you drive a Hummer…

  39. >HAAAAAAAAA I actually drive a PRIUS! No joke! As for me, I hate the idea of kids playing on pesticide laden fields, with holes and ruts and hard, bone-crushing, knee-tearing surfaces. And I hate the waste of money and water that goes onto grass fields which are used beyond their capacity and ALSO have to be resodded every few years. Your 4 and 6 year old are not the primary users of Maple…yet. But my 10 year old, 14 year old and 16 year old ARE. And they use it constantly.

  40. >Informed people can and do support the BOE. Just because people disagree with some posters here it does not mean that they do it “blindly” or “drink the kool aid.” Many prople see both sides to an issue and make their own decisions.

  41. >Informed people can and do support the BOE. Just because people disagree with some posters here it does not mean that they do it “blindly” or “drink the kool aid.” Many prople see both sides to an issue and make their own decisions.

    I agree but there is a very large group in town (lets call them the BOE at all cost types) that will speak in support of anything the BOE does with total disregard for weather its a good or bad policy no matter what it is or how stupid with utter disregard for the kids education.

  42. >no one informed supports TERC math

  43. >You blindly support the BOE if you are pro-TERC and pro-CMP2.

    These programs are simply not in the best interest of our children learning mathematics.

    Do you want your child to measure with a ruler or jelly beans?

    Do you want your child to add using a mathematical algorithm or by drawing ducks?

    Do you want your child writing about Jolly Ranchers or multiplying fractions?

    When that old dude stood at a BOE meeting and read one line from the NYU math Professors email that says “no one can argue with trying to make math more fun” and he omitted the rest of the text that stated “TERC has denuded math of all content” you have an example of a person who is blindly supporting the BOE.

  44. >How dumb do they think we are?

    very you vote for them

  45. >8:34 AM I have to agree with the fact that the “social sluts” comment can be construed as too broad. It only covers some members of Ridgewood’s HSAs. But chances are that if you are a lifer in this organization–on you way to an executive post and a spot on the esteemed Federated entity, and you are decidedly not a “social slut,” you are very likely a “political mercenary.”

    Either way, this organization has been subsumed by the administration and the BOE, and regardless of what it states may be its mission, its purpose is dictated by both of these entities. Just don’t go so willingly into the breech, my friends. Show some independence from those on whom you feed.

  46. >in response to Blaise d., Are you aware that you could resod a playing field approx. 13 times and still not reach the cost of a turf field that may need to be replaced in 10 to 13 years? New turf grass does not need large amount of pesticides or water and it Will enhance the environment just by being there in place of an artificial product. Most amateur and professional athletes prefer natural grass. Why can’t Ridgewood be known for its high quality grass fields? It’s cheaper than artificial turf and it adds to the quality of the environment.

  47. >A turf field is about as environmentally friendly as a paved road.

  48. >12:41

    Nice points. Here’s the rub. Ridgewood’s Parks and Recreation will ultimately be charged with the care and maintenance of whatever field is developed. These guys can’t take proper care of what we have now. Since it’s much more difficult to kill artifical grass, this kind of surface will last much longer than any other surface. However, if we plant a live field we will need to depend on the P&R gang to take care of it. Big mistake. And dead after the first season. So, in a perfect world, natural grass is better. But in Ridgewood, natural grass needs to be cared for by a bunch of folks who really don’t give a rip about what they’re doing. That’s a waste of time and money.

  49. >How arrogant! Taking care of Ridgewood, the physical plant, means taking care of streets, waterworks, parks, etc.–these jobs are all essential in keeping any town together.

    Taking care of natural playing fields is a job–and I’m sure many people would be grateful to have it. How is this a “waste of time and money”? ( BTW, I don’t see ANY “dead” fields around Ridgewood.) What’s next, plastic trees lining our streets, just because taking care of real trees is a “waste of time and
    money”??

  50. >Hey 7:21

    Don’t see any dead fields? Take a look at Vets. Take a look at the small field at BF. Take a look at Citizens, Brookside and Hawes. The only really DEPENDABLE field is Maple Park. Even the RHS stadium field, which is used twice a month, sucks. Who takes care of that? Parks and Recreation is not charged with taking care of streets, waterworks, buildings, etc. Get a grip. It’s a pathetic situation. If P&R could do their job right, maybe the push for artificial surfaces wouldn’t be so intense.

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